I feel as strongly about this as you. I am a single mom paying over $1200 because I don't want my child to live in a tiny dump. I don't know how I can ever get ahead enough to buy my own place. I also have a big dog, so you've gotta come up with over a thousand bucks for your deposit right away, it's crazy! Real estate prices are coming down, and rental prices aren't, what sense does that make??
It almost IS like the price of gas. Once the consumers have been forced to pay over a dollar for a liter of fuel, what incentive is there for the oil companies to lower the price? Even after the price for barrels of oil have gone down. They already know we'll pay what we've been forced to. I can't imagine a landlord saying to his/her tenant,
'Well, looks like the value of my home has decreased by 8% over the last couple years. How 'bout I give you a break and reduce your rent by $100/month? Oh, and here's a blank cheque for you to go out and get yourself something nice for the yard'.
No matter how we slice it, our price for a piece of the rental pie will stay where it is now, probably get worse,
UNLESS THE PRICE OF RENTAL HOUSING IS REGULATED BY THE PROVINCE OR CITY.
Not sure how this can or will happen, but it seriously must. Seriously.
I pose this question to the one reader of my online rantings (hi mom!):
As a renter in the city of Victoria, are you willing to support and fight for a by-law that would regulate what a landlord could charge for rent?
If so, why? If not, why? Let's get this showboat on the road. Can we do this? Really. Can we?
YES WE CAN!!!!
ReplyDeleteDisclosure: I'm a landlord and a renter (it's complicated).
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to argue that rents aren't high, they certainly are. I will say this: I bought a 2BR house for $450,000. I pay ~$2300/month in mortgage costs. I rent it out for ~$1500. In the last year, my house has lost 25% of it's value, but guess what, I still have to pay $2300/month for it.
My point here is that rents are not directly tied to the cost of buying a house, because if they were, rents would be *higher*.
I wish I understood the factors that go into rental prices... In the past, to set my rent, I just looked at Craigslist for the previous month, and copied rents for similar places in similar areas.
The fact that you overpaid for your house at the height of a real estate bubble does not make it more complicated. You can try setting your rent as high as you want, but the market doesn't factor in your overpayment. The market is based on what people can pay.
ReplyDeleteWhat people can pay is based on their income. Median incomes in Victoria have not changed very much in 20 years, and yet real estate has doubled.
This makes it impossible for investors to make money as landlords, and hence investors leave the market, causing prices to fall.
It's all a great cycle. The point is, your house price has little to do with rentals.
If rental prices are regulated, we will begin to see less and less for rent. Why would people be willing to lose money by renting for less than they pay for the mortgage? Inevitably the people for "renter's rights" are going to want the cap low, when the reality is if you can't afford to live within your means here (Victoria) it is the free market, and supply and demand dictating that you might be better off living somewhere else.
ReplyDeleteIf prices are regulated, there will be less incentive to rent out a place you own, and there will be even more difficulty finding a place at all.
As a personal side note, I'm currently a renter, and have been a landlord, before moving to the island. As a landlord, if they did force a maximum price for rentals, there is no way I would rent to anyone with pets, let alone a "big dog" - so much more risk for an already slim to non-existent profit margin.
I think enforcing a cap on rent would be a disaster. Suites would become unmaintained sh*t-holes as landlord become slumlords.
ReplyDeleteEnforcing a maximum rent would mean the end of "newly renovated" or freshly painted /cleaned carpets, suites. They would be headed into disrepair as tempers flared from home owners. Where would the competitiveness to charge so much rent come from then?
I want to live in a nice place as much as the next person, but a by-law is not the way to go.
@ anon poster 1:
ReplyDeleteYou rock.
@ anon poster 2:
I don't think a 'what you should charge for rent' calculation based on what you paid for your house would work or be realistic. I don't care how much someone has paid (or overpaid) for a house, or how much they are in debt to the bank for the next 30 years. I do care that there are people of all walks of life who are being forced to choose between food and rent or paying hydro or rent (yes, like those commercials). It's inhumane and wrong.
@ womp:
I wish the market really was based on what people could pay. Seems to me what has happened over the last few years is a direct result of what anon poster 2 has described. Landlords attempting to not only break even to make their mortgage payments, but trying to also make a profit with rental properties. Hopefully the cycle has reached the point where people are leaving the market. Unfortunately, unless this causes a ton of new rentals to be on the market at the same time, the cost of renting will not decrease. Am I missing something?
@ anon poster 3:
Clearly you are not a native Victorian. I, on the other hand, was born and raised here. This is my home. Being forced to live outside of my means by paying rent that is too high and unregulated is wrong.
@ anon poster 4:
Three words for you. Residential Tenancy Act. Also, I don't think you could turn a good landlord into a slumlord just because rents are being regulated. They wouldn't want their places destroyed. Already a slumlord? Different story.
Hey GET REAL - this blog is exactly what we need!!! Something needs to be done about the rental situation here. Thank you for taking the Lead on this.
ReplyDeleteCaps are never the answer (New York rental caps, tuition freeze in BC, etc etc).
ReplyDeleteAffordable housing solutions are a more feasible avenue to pursue. When I say affordable housing I am not referring to those who are homeless or qualify for subsidized housing via the CRD, BC Housing, Habitat for Humanity, etc(I still recognizing that those individuals do require housing).
LOCAL CHAMPIONS:
The City of Langford has won numerous awards for their insightful way of creating perpetual affordable housing stock. Not only that, they are waiving municipal property taxes and certain development cost charges on affordable housing development.
@ pissedoffrenter:
ReplyDeleteLove the username! Yes, something does need to be done.
@ Demonknight:
Very good point. Affordable housing solutions would be ideal. Kudos to Langford for working it - the Affordable Housing Program, that is. Doesn't really help renters, and for applicants it is still a bit like winning the house lottery, but still a great idea for house-hunters and developers alike.
capping rent I think is a bad Idea because it gives no one an incentive. The suite you might want to rent might have 5 appliances huge fireplace and it maybe just a small one bedroom then the government will say "You can't charge over this set amount" Many places are worth more money but most places aren't worth it.
ReplyDeleteIgnore Anonymous that said "you might be better off living somewhere else." he is the biggest troll on the face of the Earth. he is known as 4 Plex King.
He doesn't believe in building strong communities that have a market for everyone he only thinks within his own arrogant, diluted point of view.
They just have to make it so building owners can still make money catering to a lower priced market it isn't going to effect 4 plex kings rental Income.
Lobby Governments to ease up taxation..
Cap the rent when you know nothing about what drives it. Supply and demand and cost. If house prices here were 150K then 1000 a month for rent for a suite would be too high, however they are much higher so therefore rents are. And 1200 is not that much more than 800 somewhere else, now factor in cable/internet 150, hydro 50-100, garbage disposal, laundry in suite, all your appliances that you dont pay for, and yes taxes on the income, and 1200 is not very much. You can take a mortgage/work harder that is your choice, you want to rent that is also your choice and like noted earlier there is lots of benifits to renting. Quit whining about rents to high, only because you want everything for free and then you will be happy. Rents are high here, yes, so is the desireablility. Houses lost value(cheaper you say) but you dont mention the risk factor people take on with renters/house prices, and for risk there is reward. Get all the facts, not just what applies to you and high rent. Or better yet, your choice to leave for cheaper rent elsewhere
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteHow does being a renter assume that I am not working hard enough? It must be considered 'hard work' in landlord land to be able to pick up a pen and sign mortgage papers.
Free would be great! What a marvelous suggestion! Hadn't thought of that. You have anything available for free? Maybe the sphinx out at the corn maze? Does it come with cable?
Indeed you have not realized that this issue is not only a personal one, but one that I share with thousands of people in Victoria. Me and my high rent are not going away. Perhaps you and your 'high rent' and 'insult the intelligence of people that pay you your high rent' attitude would be better served elsewhere. I hear there are homes of great value in Gold River.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete" Cap the rent when you know nothing about what drives it. Supply and demand and cost. ___________________
This is the same kind of person who whines and complains about the Minimum wage being too high.
It is not a free market here and it hasn't been for a very long time.
Too many stupid arrogant people moving into this town willing to fork over tons of money on something worthless, like a leaky condo for $300,000 that is below ground and one bedroom.
Also since when does the renter get Laundry, Cable and internet for free? I've only lived in maybe 2 places in my life that gave away cable and hydro but never laundry.
I can tell that this guy is from someplace like Scamcouver..OOps I mean Vancouver, or Toronto..
I am also not a person for rental caps, Just pay what it is WORTH! if it is a closet then the price should reflect that
If it has a big gas fireplace and Dishwasher Washer/Dryer fancy tub and Marble Counter tops then the price should Be more.
When I see Brand new suites up in Bear Mt going for the same price as some dive on Bay Street then something is horribly wrong with the logic of rental properties.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLet me clarify. I am a man, yes, from Victoria, yes. I dont comment on minimum wage, although waitresses taking home hundreds of dollers in tips, for unskilled work, humm your not paying for service, T and A maybe. Anyways I give all utilities included, also brand new appliances and washer and dryer in suite. And i gave cheap rent 800 bucks brand new suite in a brand new house, never been lived in, paid my tenants costs to move because she wanted to come. She then proceded to screw me with rent, taking bycycles apart on the carpets, letting her cats(yes i let pets) shit over flow the kitty litter box onto new carpets so i kicked her out, and you know what, Now i charge 1200 for same, dont care if you are struggling anymore until you prove to me you deserve a good deal on the rent. My new tenant will get reduced 25 dollers a year if they are good, if not for the risk it will go up the 40 dollers I can raise it. You are entitled to what you deserve and that is it, Prove your a good tenant and the rents will be accordingly
ReplyDeleteYou knew what this tenant was like before you moved her in and now you collectively punish everyone else for your lack of judgment. I agree you got screwed but it sounds to me that you made a bad call.
ReplyDeleteYou also have a brand new suite in a brand new house therefore your price should reflect that which I feel it does.
However when I see rundown crap holes going for the same price then we have a problem here.
If you go to wall mart and all the pairs of jeans are 200 bucks a pair, levis or some no name brand second hand crap then you would be horrified and feel like your being ripped off.
no I didnt know that this tenant was gonig to get a gambling habit, addiction etc. Lack of judgement no, dont pry into my tenents business until it affects me(rent/damages)And your right it is a rent reflective of the place, my point was I tried giving cheaper rent as I dont need the extra dollers and the tenant didnt care, just abuse it. Now she is one step away from homeless living in a dump that is about to torn down....How do you vet tenants that are willing to go to those extremesbecause of there problems. Therefore rents must be raised to accept the risk of taking someone you know very little about. AT 200 dollers pairs of jeans,,,,,none are worth that adn I wouldnt buy either. a 300,000 doller mortgage right now is about 1500 dollers a month, you can get a condo for less than 300,000 currently add in condo fees, and bills and you can have your own place, I dealy you have saved some money for a down payment so you can probalby have your own placefor 1500 a month. Two bedroom with a roommate makes it cheaper than rent, but more planning, you can do this. Or by an older one, if your paying 1200 a month now, and you buy an older condo for 200,000 or less your payments would be less than a 1000, so what if it isnt going to goup in value a lot, you have to pay rent anyways, at least you will have some equity in the end. People just have to explore the options in this city. When I started out I lived up in Duncan as that is the only place i could afford, commuted for 5 years. There is ways to get cheaper accomodations around this area, but not sitting in the downtown core in prime realestate. My previous tenant found a dump on 3 acreas but a full house for 1200 4 bedrooms, she she gets another renter with her, then she can stay off the street, just has to use her head, like the rest of the renters in town
ReplyDeleteYou would have to be mentally Ill to pay 300,000 for a 500sq-ft box plus maintenance fees/taxes/insurance.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess that explains the vast majority of people who buy homes around here. Realtors well they are indeed mentally ill.
1500/mo payment means a min 4500/mo wages.
I have not seen any condos on MLS for 200,000, maybe in sooke because no one wants to live there.
I got ill some years back and I indeed had the down payment I explored many options. But banks only want you in a worse financial situation not a better one. I looked at a place that would have given me money to burn
But I guess the bank couldn't see me as their slave for the next 15 years and said no. I could have been in and out of that place by now with a tidy profit too.
That was before the artificially inflated housing bubble.
I remember you from craigslist.
A person can rent a whole house for the same as a one bedroom apartment these days anyway and the one bedroom ap[apartments aren't worth more than 600 in reality. which is what I pay. I'm not bitching about my rent I'm bitching about the overall greed so many people have around here. There are so many crap holes all over that want 800 for a closet just because joe bear MT is offering a brand new suite for 800 so they think they can rent their 30 year old unit for the same.
If all the renters in town "Used their head" like you say people like yourself would be SOL and stuck with the high mortgage. If you don't need the extra bucks then why do you have a suite in the first place?
Not all of us are bad people. Every place I lived at the landlords liked me.
Because at one point I did need the help for the house I had bought. Now I owe nothing and was willing to help renters out, and got fucked over. So why would i do that again. You say mentaly ill to pay 300k for 500sq ft, well one you obviously are not looking because that is a crock. but all those mentaly ill made money and you still paid money for nothing. bitterness. Nobody is telling you to rent/own on your own, get roomates at first, you do what you can afford. You think you can get a one bedroom apt, for the same price as a house, are you really even looking or just bitching. Talk to my last tenant, she told me what was out there and regrets losing what she had. If joe bear mountain is renting for 800, then he is looking for the right tenant, not jsut to rake money in, but why should that affect the dive landlords from the going rate, just like in job interviews the top candidate gets the position or in this case the cheap rent. Carry on looking and try to help yourself out
ReplyDeleteI saw houses going for 1200 and one bedrooms for 1000-1100.
ReplyDeleteExample from Craigslist $1200 / 1br - 1 Bedroom Basement Suite, Great Location, Quiet, Private, June 28 (Maplewood) (map)....TOTAL 650 sq. ft.
This place sounds nice though it may just be worth the price..
$1350 / 4br - Upper floor of house (Quadra/Cloverdale) (map)
upper level 4 beds is close enough to a full house.
$1850 / 3br - Oceanfront home, private sandy beach (View Royal)....OCEAN FRONT HOME!!
$1050 / 1br - Renovated Apt in Fairfield
this is small..
1850 / 4br - 1428 Fort Street - Beautiful Family Home
that is a very nice house too.
real estate prices are DROPPING so those people that bought their below ground condo for 300,000, (was on the news) must be mentally ill. they're not making much money now on that "investment" they are stuck with it for now..
Learn about the capital markets, maybe they are under the price they paid for it right now, so you have the opportunity to get them cheaper, take advantage of it. But garanteed 25 years from now, they will be higher than what they paid for it, you have to live somewhere, might as well get some equity, nothing goes straight up or down, just look for better buying opportunities, as for you ads, did you even go look at them? or just pulled them of, in wich chase it means nothing, but why would you go and look at a place renting for 1850/3 bedroom if you only need a 1 bedroom for 650. I look at your streets you gave, Fort, who wants to live on a main road, but fairfeild some seem to want to live there (not me) they are nto comparable, but the end result is..........the market will dictate wether these rents are right or not, not your personenl opinion, and as they are getting rented out, somebody things that is a fair price
ReplyDeleteI never said the house rental price wasn't fair. Renting houses hasn't changed much but apartments are highly over priced for what they are.
ReplyDeleteThe locations listed was not the point of my last post I was just showing an example of what you can get by quick look on craigslist.
I wouldn't want to live on fort street either.
People don't think it is a fair price the fact is people are paying it because they aren't given a choice.
that is not a free market, people are getting a better deal in the long run by renting a house that was my point.
The market is inflated for apartments and way too high to purchase a house, but Like I said the "Market" price of a home all round is dropping.
Wait another year, if this trend continues a lot of people are going to hurt and wish they didn't buy when the market was overheated. Which is dumb anyway.
"Wait another year, if this trend continues a lot of people are going to hurt and wish they didn't buy when the market was overheated. Which is dumb anyway."
ReplyDeleteNow you understand capital markets, being real estate, stocks, etc. NOt everyone can get in at that bottom. 25 Years ago I was renting a 2 bedroom apt for 750, dont remember if utilities were included, it was not in a brand new house, just an appt bld. What would that cost now, I see them around 800-900, so what is the problem here. Hard to do on a single income, oh ya, that is why you have roomates/spouses to share costs, nothing has changed here. NO matter what you think, nobody can afford to give you 500 doller rent to make you happy. People have all kinds of choices, just ask the Loggers etc up island, what is there choice when they lost there jobs, to leave an look for work elsewhere, or stay and be unemployed, not good, but a choice, just like you have a choice to leave. I will garantee you people are still comign to victoria to live and need places to rent. Can you afford them working at mcdonalds, nope, But i bought my house with a suite to rent to my son for cheap when you needs a place if he chooses, he is the only one that will get the cheap rent, and assuming he deserves it, if he is a druggie etc, he can join the pandora bumbs as well till he learns, we all have choices, you seem to have made poor ones, wich is the problem, get more education, get a better job, get a roomate, options galore
Maybe you're the one that should leave jackass! I think get real already went through this with you.
ReplyDeleteI understand the difference between a truly free market that has options and room for everyone at any level (Much like retail) and a closed market which is only open to the highest bidder. (Victoria/Vancouver) This opinion is shared by thousands of people and we're not going anywhere so get use to it! and nobody here is going to shut up "To Make You Happy"
You don't know about my "Choices" whether they were right for me or not. You also don't know that I got ill and LOST EVERYTHING and am unable to continue working full time if I want to live long. You are a classic example of an arrogant and ignorant Victoria resident. SOME of us didn't have mommy and daddy's health plan and hand outs like you obviously do being you're into assumptions. I DO NOT like being ripped and too many people are being ripped off by the likes of you.
Bite me you ignorant self diluted simpleton and get back in your bubble or move to Yellowknife.
P.S. if you were renting something for 750 25 years ago then you were either ripped off and don't know the value of a dollar or you're mistaken.
ReplyDelete750 25 years ago would have got you an extremely nice apartment probably a 3 bedroom house.
20 years ago I could rent an apartment in North Vancouver for 450 for a 2 bedroom in a decent building. In case you don't know North Vancouver has always been middle class ignoramuses trendy overpriced shopping district and someone could actually live there and save money if you lived in the right area at the time. Unlike here where a camper in the back yard will get you 900/mo.
No I dont care about your circumstances. nor should you care about my circumstances. I have a product to rent, and It gets rented easily, therefore it is priced right, You dont want to pay the going rate, you want somebody to give you a free ride. It aint going to happen, this site is a one sided rant fest that you will have to change your situation to improve your lot. And if the market gets flooded with rentals, sure I'll come down, i always rent for just under market value to ensure a tenant, and be picky, you would never make it, i dont take welfare, single moms any more, disability and what ever else factor tells me you cant afford it. That is the way it is. there is a cabin in the bush for cheap, no running water, outhouse, no heat, very very cheap, pick what you want. And this jackass doesnt need to go anywhere. My house is paid for, and you renters give me free money, why would I leave that??? you on the other hand need to take a look at what suites you best, but by calling me names and telling me to leave, you are misguided. I never called you a jackass, nor did i tell you to leave, i said the option is there for you.......adios it is almost feeding time at the trough in another 5 days, another month another windfall
ReplyDeleteto the other clown, so I dont know the value of a doller or i was ripped off, You guys are wacked, who owns the house and rents to you clowns???? i think you dont know the value, and at 87000, not a bad increase if i do say so myslef, as for you humm rent went from 450, t0 950, keep asking who knew the value for a doller???? And yes i dont live in dives, i have always rented nice appartmens, with roomates at that, but whatever i needed. Keep on bitching about the camper and back yard, it will get you no where, what are you all going to do, move out and camp in parks and not pay to rent places, ya right, the albertans will move in and rent dont worry and they all you will be is wet and dirty like david johnston but you will have proven a point......wont you have???
ReplyDeleteI don't think this troll of a landlord realizes who renters are. If anyone has any statistical data to share on renters in Victoria or even Canada, please post. I am also looking for something to share. Not for it's benefit, however.. Surprisingly enough, we do have regular readers that may be interested.
ReplyDeleteAnd you are the only one that has shown some sense. If prices are to high, then you get a roomate unless circumstances improve. I had a roomate for 8 years so dont see what the issue is. That is all that we could afford at the time. Mommy and daddy arent there to carry you, so make it happen, and better yet, you and someone else can get a 400,000 doller mortgage for 2000 a month that will get you a house now, or split on a 2 bedroom condo, 1250 a month maybe, only 625 each, I dont see one renter on here looking at other options other than "rents are too high, make them come down" they are not to high, the market has proven that. To high for you maybe, but even in some hick town they have homeless people.....
ReplyDelete